'Mijn lichaam drijft me om te werken'
stanley donwood interview
// De Morgen (dutch mag), May 19, 2007
:: interview by Bart Steenhaut (c)
:: photographs by Alex Vanhee
:: english translation by kid.android {atEase}
:: original scans >> uploaded
here
"My body forces me to work" - Stanley Donwood is often referred to
as the sixth member of Radiohead. In the past fifteen years, the graphic
designer has been responsible for all the band's album covers, was
present in the studio when milestones like 'The Bends' and 'OK Computer'
were recorded, and worked on drawings and paintings along with singer
Thom Yorke. Presently, Donwood is exhibiting his work in the Benelux
for the first time. "If my girlfriend is impressed, that matters much
more to me than winning a Grammy". Donwood (38) avoids publicity,
and the handfull of interviews he has given thus far, were mostly
conducted by e-mail. But under pressure of his children - who would
like to see their father's picture in a magazine some time - he is
willing to look your reporter straight in the eyes today. Of course
he doesn't do that without reason. Under the moniker 'Department of
Reclusive Paranoia', Donwood is currently presenting his work for
Radiohead in Rotterdam. And although many of these designs have grown
world famous, he tranquilizes his nerves for the official opening
with a bottle of wine that gets emptier at a dizzying pace during
our conversation. "The question always remains whether or not people
will like what I do".
— I can't imagine that you find artistic pleasure
in creating album covers. They seem too small to take satisfaction
in.
"It's not a format I adore, that's right. That's
why, for the last three Radiohead records, I also made editions outside
the constraints of these ugly little plastic cases. Both 'Kid A' and
'Amnesiac' have been released in book form, and I am still very proud
of that."
— Aren't those special editions preceeded by
troublesome talks with the record label, because they are more expensive
than a boring regular case?
"At first every proposal was met with a lack of
understanding, but as Radiohead became a bigger band, our ideas became
easier to push. When 'Hail To The Thief' was released, the whole record
industry was in mourning. Due to illegal downloading the record sales
had decimated, and they would've done anything to turn a cd into an
attractive product again. I took serious advantage of that (laughs).
We designed a packaging that folded open like a road map. That had
never been done before. I'm not opposed to downloading, it's just
that I can't possibly say whether or not it's a democratic principle.
It seems more useful to also release albums in a cheaper version.
That way, anyone who wants the music can buy it at a democratic price."
Grammy
— By coupling your work with the albums of a
world famous band, you've managed to get your paintings introduced
to an audience of millions in a relatively short time. Was that your
motivation to join forces with Radiohead from the beginning?
"No, because of course I couldn't predict that the band's success
would be so huge. But now I am obviously thrilled that I can work
outside of the restrictions of the small-minded art world. If you
think of it that way, an album cover is a good medium. If you walk
into a record store, you are overwhelmed with an endless flood of
images. As a consumer you have plenty of choice. I know that some
bands have a huge promotion campaign behind them in the hope of selling
more records, but in the end you decide for yourself which album is
worth paying 15 euros for. I like that idea."
— You've won a Grammy for 'Amnesiac', but you weren't thrilled
with that at all. Such a prize is a form of appreciation, isn't it?
A: "Strictly speaking, those Grammy's aren't more
than a way for big record labels to put records that have already
sold exceptionally well in the spotlight again. It's an incestuous
event where the whole business pats each other on the back. I didn't
want to go to Los Angeles, but I let myself get persuaded by the argument
that you only experience something like that once".
— And? Was it worthwhile in the end?
"You're being driven there in a limo. With blinded
windows. And a full fridge. And a tv set. Who the hell watches television
in such a car? Also: no matter how expensive the car in which you
drive around is, during rush hour you're in the traffic jam just as
well. Then you really feel like an idiot. Additionally, I think that
the gap between rich and poor in America is terribly surreal. Did
you know that the benches over there are specifically designed so
that the homeless can't lie down on them? And there you are, passing
in your limo to pick up your Grammy. I was so ashamed, man."
Dr. Tchock
— How do your graphic designs come into existance?
"I hang around in the studio while the band is
tinkering with the music. My graphic work and their songs originate
at the same time, even though there are never any guidelines. I have
a computer nearby on which I can design images, and sometimes I also
just get out a sketchbook to make the drawings that the songs evoke
in me. And I have my own studio close by, so if I feel the need to
paint, I can do that. Each time we start working on a new record,
I panic for a few days, because I exhausted all my ideas on the last
release. But once Thom has given me his lyrics, the creativity comes
back to me again. We have a similar outlook on the world. That helps
(laughs). For each new project I have some ideas in mind,
obviously, but after a while they get altered under the influence
of the music.
— Is the opposite true as well? Do your artworks
influence their music?
"It would be very presumptuous of me to say that
about myself. I don't know anything about music, I can hardly tell
the difference between a bass and a guitar. Our methods aren't really
that different from back at the art academy. Only now there are no
obnoxious teachers giving us ridiculous assignments and explaining
in detail exactly how they should preferrably be carried out. Both
the music and my canvases are created very spontaneously, very intuitively.
When the band plays something that impresses me, they notice that
from my enthusiasm.
— You often work with Thom Yorke, who does his
graphic work under the Dr. Tchock pseudonym. What does he add to your
work?
"His influence is bigger than you might think.
I start working on something, he ruins it, brings it back to me, and
then I tear down everything he built up. It's a bizarre way of working,
but we do reach results. Recently, we hung up a big canvas on which
we could each do our thing for exactly five minutes - we stopwatched
it. That produced a very fine painting. Sometimes a work is finished
in one day, sometimes it takes months. Then I think my first attempt
is worthless, I paint over it, and leave it there until the paint
has dried. Most of the time there are two or three paintings in my
studio on which I'm working simultaneously. If you could put an infrared
ray on some paintings, you'd see that there are five or six versions
hidden underneath."
— Radiohead's musicians have a very serious,
gloomy image. How's the atmosphere when you are holed up in the
studio together?
"They are totally occupied by their work, identify
with what they're doing, and so are really serious about their task.
Of course they take pleasure in making new music, but at the same
time, there is especially the need to be appreciated. It's like a
child that makes a drawing and then shows it to its mother: the validation
when she likes it - nothing can beat that. During the recording there
are obviously tensions sometimes, but actual fights are very rare,
let alone shouting sessions. They're much too 'British' for that."
— The first time Thom Yorke asked you to become
the steady designer of the band, you declined because you didn't really
feel like becoming a graphic artist. What changed your mind?
"Their first album cover was made by someone else,
and it was really horrible. There was no link with the music at all,
and when the record company started a hideous poster campaign in the
wake of "Creep", I noticed that the band didn't know what to do anymore.
So when Thom asked me to come aboard again, I did take the opportunity.
I was poor, had a girlfriend who was about to give birth, and realised
that I had to get the money flowing in quickly so we could buy some
baby clothes. The first cover I made was the one for 'My Iron Lung'.
We made at least a hundred different designs, and in the end the very
first turned out to be the best of them all. I learned the job by
being occupied with it day in, day out."
Deer in the pool
— Which cover are you most satisfied about?
"My work for 'The Eraser', Thom Yorke's solo album.
When I finished that, even my girlfriend was impressed. Quite frankly,
that was way more important to me than being nominated for a Grammy."
— Could you also do this work for another band?
"No. There are plenty of bands that I like, but
with Radiohead, I know they are genuine artists who put a lot of emotion
into their songs. They make music because they feel the physical need
to do so, not because they just want to. My body forces me to start
working with those brushes (thinks). Most art is a form of
exorcism. It brings the darkest character traits to the fore. And
then your task as an artist is to make something in which others will
recognise themselves.
— This fall, there is a new Radiohead album released
for the first time in four years. Have you finished the cover
yet?
"No. That's always the last element in the creative
process. It's also not easy to condense an hour's worth of music into
one image. I've been working on it since September. We've recorded
the album in Tottenham House, a decaying building in the middle of
a forest the size of Buckingham Palace. When it rained, the water
came running down from four stories high. There was one toilet that
was still functioning, and we had a pool in which a dead deer was
floating one morning. That should give you an idea". (laughs)
— What do you want your work to evoke?
"I hope that it makes people feel less lonely,
that they know they're not alone. That also applies to myself, by
the way. If nobody feels a connection to my work, I can only assume
that I am alone in my feelings. Getting a compliment is actually a
confirmation that you're not the only one who looks at the world in
a specific way. Look, almost every human being is unhappy in itself.
I fight that sadness by making huge paintings. Others do it by playing
music, writing books or helping orphans in Venezuela."
— Something different: before you were working
with Radiohead, you were a fire eater for a while. It's a strange
change of career.
"I quit working as a fire eater because my girlfriend
didn't want to kiss me anymore after a while. I constantly tasted
like parafine (laughs). Together with a friend I roamed the
country, and we had a street act with which we made just enough money
to buy new gasoline, and pay for beer. But I was trained to be a tree
surgeon. I was actually supposed to go work in a forest, but when
I arrived there, they had just laid off half of their staff. Fire
eating seemed like a good alternative."
— On the cover of 'Kid A', you put data on how
global warming is melting the polar caps. There is often a strong
ecological message in your work.
"That's true, but anybody could have lifted those
figures off the internet. In the meantime, it's seven years later
and the situation definitely hasn't improved. That's why I try to
be less involved with the environment these days. It depresses me.
Thinking about the future makes my stomach turn, because I'm not sure
if we even have one (thinks). In the last few months, I've
seen way too many books about the downfall of the environment, so
at this moment I'm in a very nihilistic mood. Perhaps I should urgently
pick up some Asterix-stories. As a counterbalance. Asterix always
works to get my mood back up."