The View from the
Stage
// «Les Inrockuptibles»
may'2001
Radiohead meet their idols: Jonny
Greenwood visited the venerable Jeanne Loriod, sister-in-law of Olivier Messiaen
and still vibrant musician. Together, they talked about the Ondes Martenot,
a forgotten instrument that she has played and defended for quite a long
time. As a young fan, Jonny had come to ask for advice, before expressing
his admiration and his love for the musician and the instrument.
__________
Generally, the first thing that people tell you about
the Ondes Martenot, is that it's an old instrument that uses electricity:
these are its least important characteristics, because they reduce the invention
to a simple link in the evolution of electronic instruments, from their prehistory
all the way up to... To what, exactly? To Casio keyboards? To samplers?
No, for since the beginning, Mr. Martenot was right.
Electronic instruments, since their invention, evolved in this way: from
more and more sounds controlled in a more and more precise manner. Today
even samplers are no more than a sort of super-organ. While with the Ondes-Martenot,
you can control each particular aspect of sound its color, its tonality,
its intensity and thus sing, climb in pitch or resonance, with as much
versatility and precision as a violin.
By comparison, even the Theremin is just a toy. The first
time that I heard the Ondes Martenot, I was 15 years old, it was in a recording
of the Turangalila-Symphonie by Messiaen. The sublime sound of the Ondes
carried the violins out into the space (listen to this work and you'll see
what I mean). Since that day, I've been obsessed with the Ondes. So I was
very honored to meet Ms. Loriod, the greatest Ondes Martenot player in the
world (it was she who played on the famous recording of the Turangalila-Symphonie).
She's since been, for the last half-century, a central figure in contemporary
French music. I had the good fortune to be able to ask her some questions
about her life, her work with Messiaen and the future of this remarkable
instrument.
[Jonny Greenwood]
Radiohead and Messiaen: A priori, an improbable, almost
surrealistic association. Nevertheless, the group has made us used to such
incongruous encounters, that stretch and destroy cliches and genre boundaries.
Jonny Greenwood wanted to meet Jeanne Loriod, half-sister of Messiaen and
passionate musician, expert player of the Ondes-Martenot, that futuristic
instrument worthy of Marsupilami, invented in France at the beginning of
the 20th century and precursor of the synthesizer. The Ondes Martenot had
been frequently used by Olivier Messiaen, notably in his Turangalila-Symphonie.
Its sound had also been popularized by the science fiction films of the 1950s.
The meeting took place in Paris, at Mme Loriod's: Jonny
arrived with a bouquet of flowers in his hand, with a slightly anxious air
about him, like a fan finally meeting his idol. He had spent the night preparing
his interview, revisiting classic works: his features were lightly drawn
and he had with him the learning method for the Ondes Martenot written by
Mme. Loriod. The meeting went like a musician's dream: in spite of the difference
in generations and languages, the two communicated through a shared sense
of the marvellous and fantastic, the same dreams nourished by Messiaen. Through
his admiration for Jeanne Loriod and her preferred instrument, Jonny also
spoke of his amazement before the composer's work. After the interview, he
confided, happily: "Two years ago, she played in London and I went to
see her at backstage, before the show. She was afraid and left. I suppose
that I've already done that as well to certain Radiohead fans..."
What was your first contact with the Ondes Martenot?
Maurice Martenot invented the instrument and presented
it in Paris on May 3 1928. I hadn't been born yet. But I heard it for the
first time in 1937: it made an extraordinary sound! I was just a little girl
and I asked my parents to explain to me what that sound was that came from
the Eiffel Tower... At that time, there was an orchestra of 8 or 9 Ondes
Martenots that played at the Eiffel Tower, and I think it was Maurice Martenot's
sister, Ginette Martenot, who directed the ensemble.
Adolphe Sax also gave his name to an instrument that he
invented. Nevertheless, that instrument, used by composers like Berlioz or
Saint-Saens, had been used for other kinds of music than that for which it
was invented: it was jazz rather than classical music that made the saxophone
popular.
The Africans had understood right away that they could
blow into it and make extraordinary sounds with it. Maurice Martenot, himself,
still quite young, was fascinated and stunned by electricity, by sparks or
flashes, everything electric. He was so fascinated that he could've said
to his parents, "Me, I want to listen to music that comes from silence."
Is that what he had created? His instrument, in any case, is silent, his
music comes from silence, because it's permitted by electricity...
What about the Ondes Martenot attracted Messiaen?
The extraordinary musicality that one can get from it,
and above all, the unreal sound that floated over the entire orchestra. It
was an original/unique sound that no one had ever heard before. He, who was
Catholic, he really thought that when in heaven he'd hear that sound.
The first time that I heard Messiaen's music, I was 16,
it was at school and I had a very intense experience when listening to his
Turangalila-Symphonie: I saw colors and vibrant images. And flying about
the other instruments, I heard the Ondes Martenot which floated above the
chords: their sound fascinated me right away. I've really been obsessed by
this instrument for a long time and I finally found one last year in France.
It's a modern version, made by the grandson of M. Martenot. You yourself,
how did you meet Messiaen?
I knew Messiaen when he returned
from captivity in 1940 because my sister Yvonne was in his harmonics class
at the Conservatory. And my sister, back then, was much encouraged by our
famous aunt Nelly, she taught my sister music. And she notably asked my sister
to play the Preludes of Messiaen who, returning from Germany, came to hear
my sister play. In 1945, I went to the premiere of the 'Trois Petites Liturgies
de la presence divine' which was played at the old Conservatory.
When I was a teenager, I had this obsessive thought: I
wanted to follow the Turangalila-Symphonie everywhere it was played, like
one follows someone one loves. I went to see you play it in London, two years
ago, with Andrew Davis.
I play it everywhere. The music was very well received.
I also played it in Russia, I didn't like communism but the Russian people
are marvellous. Every four years, they organized a festival of French music,
and I went to it each time, in 1974 and in 1989, to play Messiaen or Varese.
I travelled a lot with Messiaen and my sister
Yvonne, who were married in 1965. It was in Australia that Messiaen recorded
those famous birds. It was the moment at which he wrote his opera, Saint
Francis of Assisi. He got up at 3am to listen to the lyre bird, a rare bird
that one doesn't find in Europe but which he recorded for his compositions.
For me, the Ondes Martenot has a sound that's very joyful
and mysterious at the same time, like Messiaen's music. What I like is that
the sound is very close to the human voice, it's the instrument that most
closely approximates it, more than the flute or the oboe. When the instrument
came out, many contemporary music composers or electronic music composers
pushed it aside because they might have found it too lyrical, too musical,
and so they didn't take to it.
I think that this instrument was like a revolution. And
as always, the French don't know how to recognize innovators/creators. Charpentier
composed for the Ondes. Jolivet also, in 1931 he composed a magnificent piece,
"Danse incantatoire." Varese wrote "Equatoriales": he
composed it for Theremin and he retranscribed it for the Ondes Martenot.
Pierre Henry and Pierre Schaeffer weren't willing. Schaeffer, he was an extraordinary
man, but he wanted to do something else, he wanted to use noise, the most
noise possible. He was less of a musician. Pierre Henry, just the same.
You've played in many genres and many places.
After the war, I learned the craft right away, in playing
a variety of music for Edith Piaf and Tino Rossi, with some very good singers.
I also played jazz and a lot of film music, but I don't remember that very
well. With Joseph Kosma, or Maurice Jarre and Pierre Boulez, who were Jean
Louis Barrault's musicians. Barrault, he was wonderful. And in fact I replaced
Pierre Boulez, who also played the Ondes Martenot, he was in fact the one
who made it well-known. I replaced him at the Marigny theater. As a musician,
I also worked a lot for Unesco. They projected the films of images shot all
over the world and I played improvisations: I composed the soundtrack. The
Ondes Martenot is an instrument typically used for improvisation, like the
organ.
How did you see composition for the Ondes Martenot develop?
It depended, in fact, on the evolution of the instrument.
At the beginning it was a little box, to which Martenot attached the drawing
of a keyboard for finding his place: he made a worldwide tour with his little
box... He had Ravel listen to his music, who said to him, "It's a marvellous
sound. It's fantastical, but the keyboard must be able to vibrate."
And that's how Martenot, in 1937, invented the keyboard for the instrument.
Reading your method, I came to recognize your enthusiasm
for the instrument, enthusiasm shared by your students. What should be done
today with this instrument, that I think is the most important one of the
century?
When I knew Martenot in 1948,
I told him right away, "You must build instruments," and I helped
him as much as I could to do that. I gave him money to finance a new instrument.
Then, the instrument had to be wired. That's what he did, and that's the
actual instrument that dates from 1974. One can always emphasize technique,
but preserving sensibility is essential.
Certain instruments attract certain personalities. Is there
a particular personality trait common to those who play this instrument?
The keys are small and I am sure that caused trouble
for boys. So without a doubt it attracted more women. But I don't think that
it's an especially feminine instrument.
To make music, I use many different keyboards, synthesizers..
Most of those instruments don't allow musicians to maintain control. With
the Ondes Martenot, one controls the sound, the timbre...
It's a human control. I find that in music, it's better
that it's the human being who controls it. It's a matter of taste, but synthesizers,
I'm not too familiar with them. Synthesizers, for sound they're extraordinary,
this is also true for timbre but for human sensibility, no.
You have a very generous view of those instruments.
But it's necessary that I have a generous view of humans.
If human beings destroy themselves with everything that's atomic, that will
be the end. While one's on the earth, in human form, one has to have a grand
vision. Sadness, it's to not know where one is, where one is going. In heaven,
I don't know, but in any case, all that is here on the earth, it's us, human
beings, and one has to arrange oneself accordingly. Otherwise, you have to
suppress life.
Even the instrument's conception is perfect because it
integrates synthesized/synthetic sounds as well as human sensibility. Through
people I meet, I try to make the instrument better known. I know that you
go to many conferences and travel a lot in order to talk about this instrument.
When they allow me to speak, because often, it's the
critic who comes first, they say it's over, that it's finished.
Critics are often tough on those who are starting out:
with Messiaen, with Radiohead also at the beginning, but finally the important
thing is...
It's to last. If one loves life. Love must be respected like music: because
it's the most precious thing one can receive on Earth.
